Josh McPherson Interviews Douglas Wilson
Asks controversial pastor, slavery apologist his advice for young 'church planters'
There Josh McPherson sat 11 years ago, perched opposite Douglas Wilson on a couch. He was seeking advice from the controversial pastor some call a Christian Nationalist on how to succeed as a young pastor. In the short interview clip, Wilson bestows a few pearls of wisdom upon the eager young McPherson.
The name Douglas Wilson might ring a bell, since he has earned international attention for sheltering and supporting sexual predators, defending chattel slavery in the antebellum south, and teaching men that sexually assaulting their wives is not possible because that would be like “trespassing in your own garden.”
Wilson has been accused of staging a “spiritual takeover” of Moscow, Idaho.
He is also a Vector Academy “guest lecturer” and, apparently, a mentor to Josh McPherson, founding pastor of Grace City Church in Wenatchee, Washington.
These were early days of GCC so the video production is a far cry from the slickly-produced edits they churn out these days. The video is grainy. The audio quality is poor. But it’s good enough to hear and see McPherson asking Wilson for guidance – ostensibly for other young church planters.
You can watch the entire clip on Carey McPherson’s Vimeo channel below. However, I would suspect it won’t be there much longer.
These are a couple of the high points from the beginning of the interview I think are worth quoting. So I put it a Q&A format.
McPherson: “So you’ve been (in) pastoral ministry for almost…?”
Wilson: “35 years.”
McPherson: “35 years, so that’s preaching every week and pastoral counseling and ministering to the sheep and throw in there starting a few schools in between, writing a few books and so on and so forth. So looking back what would be your words of wisdom, counsel you would give to young pastors, young preachers just getting started – what’s the one thing that they should do, what should they keep in mind? From your years of experience, what kind of counsel would you give–”
Wilson (cutting McPherson off): “They should, um, one of the things that the profits says that ‘do not despise the day of small beginnings. Don’t, um, don’t get frustrated with how God, with how long God, takes to get you ready. A lot of young men who are called to pastor are aggressive, a lot of testosterone there – they want to make a dent in the world. You know, they want to fulfill the great commission all by themselves (chuckle).”
McPherson: “Right… Well, who’s to say we might not?”
Wilson goes on about how young preachers shouldn’t “despise how slow God is going to be” and that the glory of young men is their strength, not their patience. He ends by bringing up Moses, who tended sheep for 40 years before emerging onto the world stage. That was pretty good preparation for him, according to Wilson.
“So young ministers need to be faithful to their station, work hard and be patient,” Wilson said.
Sound advice coming from pretty much any religious leader to a novice preacher or pastor. But considering the medium and not just the message – the picture becomes more complicated.
Not only does Wilson have a controversial history that has earned attention from international media outlets and the Southern Poverty Law Center, he shows no signs of mellowing with age.
In March of this year he tweeted encouragement to pastors preach words from the pulpit that Sunday that would get them put on “a government watch list.”
More GCC/Mother Kirk Connections
Josh McPherson went on the CrossPolitic podcast produced by Wilson’s Christ Church A/V department in Sept. 2021 and said “the vaccines are supercharging the virus.”