"You Conquer and Then Change Society From the Top Down:" Decoding Christian Nationalism and the NAR with Matthew D. Taylor

The religious studies scholar and author explains the rise of American Christian nationalism, the New Apostolic Reformation, and why Americans should be concerned

Dr. Matthew D. Taylor is an author, religious studies scholar and expert in independent charismatic Christianity and Christian nationalism at the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies in Baltimore, Maryland.

After I wrote about The Collective and Kingdom Defense Ministries recently, Taylor shared the article on Twitter. We connected and he offered to explain the New Apostolic Reformation in greater detail than Wikipedia could, so of course I took the chance to interview such a prominent scholar on the subject of Christian nationalism and learn more about the NAR.

In our interview we covered the origins of American Christian nationalism, the NAR, the Seven Mountain Mandate and why far-right American evangelicals have become so interested in controlling federal, state and local government since the 1990s. We also discuss why Christian nationalist leaders tend to frame reality as a “battle” or “war” and refer to their followers as “soldiers.”

I’ve broken down most of the interview into seven segments, which you can view below. I also provide contextual information between each clip.

In this first clip, Taylor explains the mission of the ICJS and how they are dedicated not to minimizing the differences between the Abrahamic religions, but rather to celebrating them and finding “helpful ways through those differences to build pluralism.”

In this second clip, Taylor introduces us to the founding father of the New Apostolic Reformation – a man named C. Peter Wagner.

He also explains how a fixation on spiritual warfare is fundamental to the American evangelical movement he started.

Taylor and the ICJS released a short documentary about the NAR and its role in the Jan. 6 Capitol riots called “Spiritual Warriors: Decoding Christian Nationalism at the Capitol Riot,” and in this next segment we talk about that and how NAR folks see themselves as the mirror opposite of “satanic forces” and the occult.

In this segment I also include a short clip of former methamphetamine manufacturer and organized crime racketeer Katie Souza telling The Collective c0-founder Jenny Donnelly about how she fought three witches and a warlock who were trying “to kill her.”

In the next segment, Taylor gives us a deep dive into the Seven Mountain Mandate and explains its roots in Calvinism, where Dutch theologian Abraham Kuyper comes in, and then much later men like Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Lance Wallnau, etc.

He also answers the question “Is this stuff in the Bible?”

In the next segment, Taylor explains the major American evangelical schools of thought on the end of the world, or “eschatology,” and where “The Rapture” comes into American evangelical pop culture.

Basically, the Seven Mountain Mandate provides a convenient conceptual rallying point around which mainstream and non-denominational evangelicals can coalesce and organize to get things done in the real world regardless of their personal beliefs about eschatology.

“It gives a structured program for what I would call Christian Supremacy. I mean the idea is Christians taking over societies,” he said. “The seven mountains is a vanguard of societal transformation. You conquer and then change society from the top down.”

In this final segment, Matthew D. Taylor and I talk about Grace City Church Pastor Josh McPherson on Glenn Beck's podcast, where the NAR fits under the larger umbrella of Christian nationalism and the history of the debate about the separation of church and state in American history.

“And even Patrick Henry, Madison and Jefferson get into a fight over the state of Virgina because Henry tries to establish a generic Protestantism as the de facto religion of the state of Virginia,” Taylor said. “And Jefferson and Madison are pushing back and saying ‘No, no, no, that’s going to harm us’ and in fact the efforts they make in Virginia – the Virginia statute on religious freedom – becomes the basis of the First Amendment.”

When McPherson announced GCC members had raised nearly $15.5 million to start a new private school in the Wenatchee Valley, he said he originally wanted to call it “The Patrick Henry Academy of Patriots.”

“I wanted to name it after the whitest, most stubborn anti-federalist founding father I could think of,” he said.

In this last segment, I ask Taylor why Americans should be concerned about the rise of Christian supremacy and the NAR.

“More and more Christians are crossing that line between Christian nationalism into Christian supremacy,” he said.

With Donald Trump’s ability to harness and use the Christian far-right, Taylor said he thinks now more than ever Americans need to defend American democracy, pluralism, and the rights and equality of everyone.

Taylor’s new book, “The Violent Take It By Force,” will be out in September and you can learn more about that and pre-order a copy here.

---